Dr. Jennifer Teramoto Pedrotti: Why DEI is Important & How it Inspires My Writing

A conversation with SAGE author Dr. Jennifer Teramoto Pedrotti, associate dean for Diversity and Curriculum in the College of Liberal Arts and professor in the Department of Psychology and Child Development at California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo. Dr. Teramoto Pedrotti has taught multicultural psychology, intergroup dialogues, and other areas of psychology for over fifteen years. She is coauthor of Multicultural Psychology: Self, Society, and Social Change and Positive Psychology: The Scientific and Practical Explorations of Human Strengths, Fourth Edition.

In this podcast, Dr. Teramoto Pedrotti discusses the importance of DEI, shares the inspiration behind her writing, and reflects on lessons she has learned throughout her career as an educator and author. 

Transcript

Lara Parra, Associate Director of Editorial, SAGE: 0:02

What inspired you to become a textbook author?

Jennifer Teramoto Pedrotti, SAGE Author: 0:06

Yeah, what inspired me to become a textbook author is the fact that someone asked me to do this actually. And I wanted to say that in particular, because I think it's really important for us to think about ways that we can encourage folks who are students, or who are junior colleagues, or even just folks who maybe haven't had some of the same kinds of opportunities as we have to pursue these kinds of things. I think we hear this with graduate school all the time, where a student says, Well, I didn't know what a PhD was, or a master's degree, or no one in my family had done those kinds of things before. And so to have a professor kind of recognize me in that way, and call me out, is the thing that made the difference here for me. And I think that for textbook writing, it's kind of the same thing. It's not like a super normal thing to write a book, you know, I don't think everyone knows a ton of people who have done that. And so, you know, when Shane Lopez asked me, originally, that made me feel, I don't know, kind of confident in the sense that he saw something in me that made him think that I would be able to do this thing that sounded hard to me in the very beginning. So, you know, as I worked through that process with him, in the very beginning, he taught me a lot about kind of how to work with a publisher how to ask for what I needed, how to make changes, or edits, you know, in a professional way, and then also how to think about contracts. And what, what I wanted to make, I guess, just out of a book just in general. So when I chose my, my new co author for this fifth edition, I was really purposeful about that in the same way I thought about who do I want to kind of uplift here and help you know, whose voice or I want to amplify in some kind of way. And so when I picked Ryan McDermott, he's a very prolific, smart, thoughtful, strong researcher, you know, kind of a colleague, and so I thought that would be a good thing for this Book to have. And I'm really looking forward to working on this with him.

Lara Parra, Associate Director of Editorial, SAGE: 1:57

We aim to amplify diverse voices and represent diverse identities in our content at Sage. How does this come through in your own writing?

Unknown: 2:08

Yeah, so I also think that amplifying diverse voices is a really important thing in thinking about writing a textbook just in general. And so I've given that a lot of thought, actually, as I'm writing a book, I think one of the things that I tried to do is to think about all the different kinds of folks who might be reading the book. And I think that that means that I have to challenge myself. And I think other authors can do this about who they think is reading their book, because sometimes I think we picture ourselves in college as the only kind of person who would do that. Or we might think only of the students that we have in our classroom or something like that. And I think that to be to be really, to be making something like a textbook accessible to everybody, we have to think about educational levels of different folks who might be reading our text, we have to think about different races and ethnicities, different social class groups, different genders, you know, et cetera. And I think that if we're picturing those folks, as we're writing the actual words, it makes it a little easier to kind of be talking to a larger audience just in general. So, you know, I think that some of the ways that I've tried to do that, in my own writing are to do things like using people first language, when I'm talking about disorders within the field of psychology, you know, treating people as people instead of as their disorder, or using more gender inclusive language. And, you know, I think the field of psychology is a field who figured that out a little bit earlier and started to do that work earlier than MLA or APA, or, you know, some of the the writing style guides out there. And I was really pleased with the way that sage was able to work with me about making my voice and authentic voice, which is one that would include different kinds of gender identities, singular, they, you know, et cetera. So things like that. And I also think, too, that, you know, as a person of color, I'm aware of the fact that I'm in a minoritized group, a minority group as well, in terms of the the authors that are out there. And so I want to also make sure that I'm writing to people who are like me, who might not be like people who have always been in the textbook field or a writing process. And I want others like me to find this book to be useful and something that's relevant and that they can learn from as well. What unique perspective or lived experience do you bring to your book that helps students relate to your content? Yeah, I think that it's very important to bring lived experience to content when you're a textbook author. Because you know, you have to be authentic, again, in the way that you're moving forward about different kinds of things that you're talking about, et cetera. And if you don't have any experience with those, you might have to get some experience with some of those things before you're really able to be an actual expert in a particular field, etc. Or to have a voice that that makes sense, even in your writing style. So I think that my years and years of teaching and an undergrad Classroom is a huge piece of what helped me to, you know, that lived experience is something that helps me to make sure that the things that I'm writing about makes sense and are relevant. I know that at my university, I'm one of the first people to develop a positive psychology course, for undergraduates specifically, there were quite a few graduate courses when I first started that but decided to do this for undergrads. And so I was able to, you know, have a first sort of seat at how students kind of engaged with the material that was in the book, what parts they didn't like. So from addition to addition, you know, this chapter is boring, we need to fix the scene in some kind of way, or take it out, etcetera, the kinds of examples that were used, and then the kinds of examples that they provided. So that helped me quite a bit. I also think my husband, and I've used a lot of positive psychology in terms of the way that we parent in in terms of trying to raise our three children to be resilient and to be empathic and full of gratitude, and you know, some of those types of things, and to recognize their own strengths. And so, throughout the book, I use stories from them, I asked for permission first, there's nothing too embarrassing in there. But at the same time, I think that that brings a little bit more life to some of those those stories. And now, when they look back at that, because most of them are from the time that they were small children, they really liked to read, you know, I thought this at this time, et cetera. And the students like that, I always use two examples. And in teaching with that, as well. The last thing I think, is that I'm a person who does a lot of diversity, equity and inclusion work in my daily job. And D I work as is really hard. And it's easy to feel not optimistic about things or, like you can't go on with certain kinds of things where things are hopeless, etc. And so I feel that I use positive psychology a lot and keeping myself moving forward in that work. And I think that that brings other people along sometimes, because it's not as though you know, this is a really easy thing. And so it's easy to talk about, you know, how rosy everything is, or something like that. This is a area of my work. That's really, really difficult. And so I think, you know, for me, positive psychology balances that out. But it keeps people from thinking, oh, you know, this is just a Pollyanna kind of idea about things, because there's nothing about dei work that could be viewed as Pollyanna. And at the same time, positive side provides this sort of antidote almost, you know, to the way that some folks have been treated and to how we can recognize strengths in a greater population. There are ways you have to think about your own strength, you have to create your own boundaries. And you have to consider why someone might feel the way they feel if you disagree with them. Totally. And I think you also have to consider that not everybody has access to taking a break. Right. So I feel like there was a real push, you know, for everyone to get involved after the murder of George Floyd. And then there was this kind of step back where people said, oh, no, I need to take care of myself during this time. But I didn't see black people having the same ability to do that, or, you know, anyone who did dei work, they didn't have the same accessibility to step back. And so it was really problematic to have everyone else stepping back, because that meant that all of this extra work was lumped onto them again, you know, and so I think it's really, really important for us to think about how we can use our strengths to support people that don't have as much room for self care and, and some of the things that that we might have access to. I mean, I've felt that about positive psych for a long time, actually, that things like mindfulness, for example, are not accessible to everyone. You know, and I think I've started to write about that a little bit in the last couple editions. But I don't think as a woman, I can be like, just all mindful when I'm walking to my car at night, and still be safe. Right.

Jennifer Teramoto Pedrotti, SAGE Author: 8:43

But if I'm not a woman, so you know,

Unknown: 8:47

I mean, I think I think for, for things like that, like part of what I think is the most important thing about positive psychology is to make all of those strikes actually accessible, you know, and that might start in the very beginning with making sure everyone has good enough nutrition and, you know, a safe place to sleep at night and things like that. We know from Maslow's hierarchy, obviously, that you have to get those basic needs handled first. And, you know, so I think this is one of those things, actually, to some extent. What is the best piece of feedback or advice you've received that changed how you think about inclusion? Yeah. So, you know, I think that the word inclusion is a little tricky sometimes because people use it in a lot of different ways. And so one of the best pieces of feedback that I have received and also have tried to enact and you know, keep kind of moving forward about inclusion has to do with the fact that in my mind, it needs to be paired with the word equitable, at the same time, so equitable inclusion, not just inclusion. You know, I think when children are young, we talk about inclusiveness, like inviting everybody to the birthday party, right? And that might mean even inviting this child you don't like or inviting, you know, someone that you don't know or some thing like that. And I think you know, in that context, of course, that's, that's nice. And it's a good way for children to kind of build empathy and inclusiveness in that that set. But I don't think that is what we're talking about when we're talking about Dei, specifically. So you know, believing all ideas have the same worth, for example, for that experience doesn't matter, all opinions are at the same level of value. Those can be really problematic kinds of ideas that can further silence voices that haven't been heard or that are in the minority. You know, sometimes you hear people say, Well, we included all the voices, and only three people had a problem with this. So it's fine, right. But if you again, if you think about equitable inclusion, if those three are from a minoritized group, we should be prioritizing those voices up a bit so that we can be getting a better sense about what different groups think. If, you know, there's, there's a majority in our country, obviously, in terms of race, and in terms of power, and things like that as well, that will likely last for, you know, decades to come here for a while, even as we start to kind of even out numbers. And so I think it's really important to, to uplift disenfranchised voices or voices from groups that have been disenfranchised, you know, and to include more voices. So you know, sometimes what that means is that I will give more weight to voices that have never been here before. And that's not treating all of everyone the same, right, that's being equitably inclusive, to make sure that that other voices who haven't been heard yet, or who haven't been allowed to sit at the table are now being heard. So I always try and use that with using the word inclusion. Well notice the thing to the other piece of that, that that is, it's tricky is that, that it makes people feel like you should be inclusive of racism, to you know, or something like that. And I've heard people say that before, oh, well, we should be inclusive of that particular company's views. So you shouldn't boycott them, or whatever. And I think, I mean, that's not how that works, right? There's certain premises that that we can choose to believe in from the beginning, and then decide what to do. If you are inclusive of racism, you're not being equitable, and you're not being inclusive, because letting racism in the room means a lot of other people can't be in there. So, yeah, yeah, that builds an unsurmountable barrier. That's right. Please tell us about the student readers that you keep in mind as you write, and who has had the biggest impact on how you write for a student audience? Yeah, so in terms of who has had the biggest impact on my writing for student audience, and just in terms of thinking about how to make decisions about what to include, I have always said my students in the past, but my children are getting to an age where it's starting to become them, that's more of a primary influence. Here, I have three children, two are teens once a tween. And so, you know, I think it's really, really important for me to pay attention to who is influencing them. And, you know, I think when I was growing up the influencers were more books, or maybe movie stars or things like that a little bit. But today, influencers are all over the internet, right? And tell our children all sorts of things in terms of what is good, what is beautiful, what is healthy, what is weird, you know, et cetera. And so I think, being really mindful about what they're paying attention to, and then making sure that the message that I want them to learn about what is healthy and good, etc, and what's the right thing to do, is louder than that voice. So limiting some of those other voices that may be sort of a detriment to, to them building strengths and being resilient, empathic, you know, grateful people. So so, you know, I think paying attention to what they're watching and listening to and what their friends are talking about is important. I think it's also important to think about what they're not learning that I might have learned because of a different, you know, cohort that I grew up under a different time, a different Zeitgeist. So, you know, things like immediate gratification, we're always we're all pretty good at getting that now with, you know, our use of technology, etc. I think comfort is another thing, too, that we were kind of used to as a society, we should be comfortable. And I tried too much to their consternation, create some experiences in which my children are not super comfortable, and that it's okay. So that might mean, you know, you are are going to be hot, because we don't have air conditioning right this second, because there's only two days of the year that it's really hot enough for that and you can handle it, you know, or you can wait until we get home to have to get something to drink out of the fridge. We don't need to stop on the way home just because you're thirsty and on a 1520 minute drive, you know, or something like that. So I'm not talking about doing things that cause problems for them in any kind of way. But I think that those builds strengths as well. And we know of course, that there are many people that don't have access to things that make it comfortable for us in our life. And I also think too, you know, the pay endemic and staying home was was a really good opportunity to kind of point some of those things out and to think about why this was hard. And yeah, it could be harder if we had had less kind of creature comforts in our house maybe, or if one of us had lost a job, or if we didn't have internet access, or things like that, and my children knew people who are from those particular groups, which I think was was helpful to them to see that, yeah, this is bad, but we can we can get through it, where we have some assets in our environment that make it a little easier for us. And to be empathic about people who didn't have those kinds of things. So I think I got off track a little bit. But in any case, you know, just kind of being aware of, of where popular culture is, you know, and that might include some of these current events and things like that is an important thing to keep in mind with regard to voice. How would you like to see your field advanced conversations around Dei? So I mean, I'm proud to be part of a field that has always been invested in advancing diversity, equity and inclusion, I think in the field, just in general. And I think that psychology is aware of the fact as a field that we've contributed to some problems with regard to pathologizing, certain groups and, and things like that, again, positive psychology is almost like a double kind of an antidote, in some ways, because it broadens our perspective to actually see strengths in everyone. But then as we focus more on cultural context, just in general, then we're also bringing for the this huge group has been only seen in a deficit model, and now can be seen in this balanced light. So I think that's important for the field, just in general, the where I would like to see the field go next is I'd like that, for folks to kind of have more acknowledgement of the fact that dei expertise is something that is valued. And that is it is actually a form of expertise, not something that everyone just knows, right. And so I think that, you know, it's really important to understand that multiculturalism or multicultural psychology or multicultural counseling, ethnic studies, you know, Women's Gender and queer studies are actual fields of study that have research behind them that have metrics to measure outcomes for different kinds of constructs, etc. And I think, you know, in some ways, positive psychology is treated similar leads to that, because people think, well, I know what, you know, positivity is, and I understand everyone's happy, or everyone wants to be happier, things like that. And folks don't kind of dig deeper to understand where the research is that that supports those ideas, or someone who doesn't support those ideas, right. And so I think that diversity, equity inclusion are similar in that respect, where people think everybody knows about diversity, it's about people, right? So I can do this just as well as someone else can. So you know, I think that it's really positive how many people are invested in doing dei work right now and wanting to get into the field. But I think that we have to be cautious about calling ourselves an expert before we are really trained in those sorts of ways. And I think that means asking other folks for, you know, help in that, I don't think that means asking your friend who's a different gender than you or a different race than you to tell you everything about it unless they happen to be a multicultural expert, and they've given you permission to do that in some kind of way. But I do think it means seeking out our own opportunities with regard to different books, we can read or reading research and consuming research responsibly in that way, going to conferences or workshops, sometimes some of those things cost something to they might cost time or they could cost money, etc. But making that investment or being willing to make that kind of investment. And then to again, kind of see that as an expertise, not just like a value, you know, is something that I think is really important. So that's one thing. The second thing, I think, has to do with with keeping history in mind in general. And I hope that the field continues to push us in those directions. You know, I think there have been a lot of efforts recently to kind of sanitized history in a way. And I think that much of the motivation behind it is a fear or a worry that we're going to harm children in some way. And I think that research really doesn't support that that pinion. You know, the fact of the matter is that when we have studied different kinds of ways of exposing children to differences or explaining different kinds of ideas to them, they are able to understand that and it can be the thing that that drives them forward towards developing more equity in their own way of thinking about things or more empathy as well. There's a lot of research that shows that children interact or people interact with people who are different from them, one on one in groups, etc. And they have more kind of immersion into a differences kind of environment, that they are more empathic people overall. And so if we have children who don't understand the history that someone else's family came from, don't understand why there were differences a long time ago or differential treat. Eight minutes cetera, it's unlikely, in my opinion that they'll be able to build solid relationships with people who are different from them. You know, because the people that that have had those experiences know what has happened to their family. And if nobody else knows, it's harder for folks to have these kinds of more interracial, interracial kinds of friendships, etc. Again, that could be with gender, with with socioeconomic status, with religion, etc. So I think it's really, really important for our field to continue to advance the idea that we must tell people the truth, and that we must make sure that we're explaining things to children at a developmental level that they can understand, but encouraging them to think about the fact that sometimes people make mistakes. And that doesn't mean that it's horrible, you know, and that we should just, you know, think that that entire group is awful or something means we learn from that and figure out how we can not reenact some of those problems. So those are two things I hope the field starts to do. And I think we are making moves in those areas for sure. In what areas is more research needed. In terms of where more research is needed, I think that, you know, to my point earlier, it's possible that if there was more research, that was very current that's done on children right now that are learning about multicultural education. And I don't mean to say that there's none, because certainly there is some already that's out there. But I wonder if there was an investment in taking the time to show folks that research and to do additional research that would make people more comfortable, if that might make a change here. I think that sometimes the kinds of things that that people are worried about with regard to that history piece in particular, is something that they're they're worried about, but it doesn't really have a basis in anything, you know. And if they knew kind of the nuance of what would actually be talked about, or the way that things would be moved forward, they wouldn't worry about it quite so much. And just as an example, my youngest is still in elementary school, and I did a presentation a few weeks ago on the Japanese internment camps for her school. The principal had asked me to do it, we have done it long ago. And then this was kind of a revisit of the entire thing. And her school is not particularly diverse, it is diverse in terms of politics, I would say. So there are folks that are very conservative folks that are not in a lot of folks in the middle. So a lot of different kinds of views about different different some of these topics. My family was in the internment camps. And so that brings a little bit of nuance to me being able to discuss it, but I facilitated a conversation between two families, one of whom was Japanese American, and one of whom was not and saved the farms of those those folks. So we talked a lot about helping and gratitude and differences and you know, things like that. I cannot tell you how overwhelmingly positive the feedback was across that diversity that we presented it to parents from all different political groups talking about how great they thought this was and how it was so nice to be able to hear a story like this that impacted their community, how glad they were for their children to know, you know, what had happened to this particular family and how this other family had helped them and what nice role models were being developed, etc. And I think that that's because, you know, this isn't a political issue. This is talking about history and learning from it to be able to do better, you know, in the future. And I don't know what parent doesn't want that kind of thing for their child to be able to do better than any of us have in the past.